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How Our Troops Are Being Portrayed Now arabic/muslim news reports editorials.

#1 User is offline   jessefan 

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Posted 18 May 2004 - 11:23 AM

Reports are starting to come out now that are giving hints as to how the prison abuse scandal is being perceived in the lslamic/arabic world. This should concern us because it affects how American service personnel may be treated if captured.
These are all reports I've come across by google searches on the word "Iraq." I did not specifically go looking for these items.

http://uk.gay.com/headlines/6271

QUOTE
According to a report in the Kuwait Times, 300 Egyptian protestors rallied in front of a banner that read, "Bring to justice the homosexual American executioners, their agents the traitors, their followers the enemies".
The report also quotes Mustafa Bakri, editor of the Al-Osboa weekly newspaper, who said, "Those gays forced our brothers in Iraq to practice homosexuality and filmed them. If we remain silent, we will be next."


In the future, getting the enemy to surrender maybe made harder because of this perception.

http://www.muhajiroun.com/
QUOTE
The photographs of female soldiers carrying out despicable abuses against Muslim men should not surprise us. ... They remain undignified, promiscuous, without honour and subjugated by their male counterparts. They carry out lewd acts without any hesitation proving themselves to be worthless, subordinate whores, a position that they have supposedly struggled to change through the years of the women’s movement, especially within institutions such as the army.


Notice the use of the word "insubordinate." In their minds, that is a more damning accusation than even the charge of prostitution. About five years ago I had an opportunity to follow Hindi magazine that regularly reported on events in Pakistan. One of the items that came up from time to time were reports of fanatic Muslims throwing jars of acid into the faces of prostitues they didn't like. But there is also another hazard. It was reported earlier that Sadr's preachers had authorized the taking of women soldiers as slaves. The actual word that was used was not "slave" but "concubine," a sex slave. Here's the actual report:

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticl...35§ion=news

QUOTE
The Basra violence came a day after a preacher from Sadr's movement told worshippers in the city he would pay a reward of $70 (39 pounds) for the capture of a British or American soldier -- and $170 for a woman soldier, he said could then be kept as a sex slave.

"If we capture a British woman soldier we will take her as a concubine and we will have the right to pleasure ourselves with her," said Kassem Hassan, the Mehdi Army fighter.


But the most troubling part of the fall out from the abuse story is the light the Muhajiroun editorial sheds on how democracy is perceived over there.

QUOTE
the depravity and torture carried out by these women is nothing but a display of the degenerative behaviour that emanates from man-made systems such as democracy which heralds the concept of freedom. The freedom to live according to one’s whims and desires, a freedom in which man dictates what is right and what is wrong according to his own instincts serving his benefit and interest.  ... The Muslims of Iraq do not need Bush & Blair’s liberation and freedom. Rather the only way to liberate all human beings from the shackles of man-made systems, whether they are barbaric democracies or brutal dictatorships, is to implement the justice of Islam through the Khilafah system. Only then will men and women cease to be oppressed and instead be given back their rightful honour and dignity.


We have gone there to bring democracy. It appears that they believe democracy is inconsistent with Islam.
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#2 User is offline   ticker 

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 05:23 AM

We all hear after something like 9/11 or the Nick Berg beheading that these acts should not be blamed on all Muslims but rather just a few extremists. Yet when a few renegade American soldiers commit crimes against Muslims, it is an indictment by association of all Americans and American soldiers. Very interesting. The fact is that they considered America the Great Satan long before the prison scandal. They are using it because it is vivid imagery with which to illustrate their anti-American rhetoric. The rhetoric is the same as it has been for decades though.

QUOTE
It appears that they believe democracy is inconsistent with Islam.


That reminds me of this recent speech by Amir Taheri, a respected Islamic scholar. Here is an excerpt:

Amir Taheri's remarks during the debate on "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am glad that this debate takes place in English.

Because, were it to be conducted in any of the languages of our part of the world, we would not have possessed the vocabulary needed.

To understand a civilisation it is important to understand its vocabulary.
If it was not on their tongues it is likely that it was not on their minds either.

There was no word in any of the Muslim languages for democracy until the 1890s. Even then the Greek word democracy entered Muslim languages with little change: democrasi in Persian, dimokraytiyah in Arabic, demokratio in Turkish.

Democracy as the proverbial schoolboy would know is based on one fundamental principle: equality.

The Greek word for equal isos is used in more than 200 compound nouns; including isoteos (equality) and Isologia (equal or free speech) and isonomia (equal treatment).

But again we find no equivalent in any of the Muslim languages. The words we have such as barabari in Persian and sawiyah in Arabic mean juxtaposition or levelling.

Nor do we have a word for politics.
The word siassah, now used as a synonym for politics, initially meant whipping stray camels into line.( Sa'es al-kheil is a person who brings back lost camels to the caravan. )The closest translation may be: regimentation.

Nor is there mention of such words as government and the state in the Koran.
It is no accident that early Muslims translated numerous ancient Greek texts but never those related to political matters. The great Avicenna himself translated Aristotle's Poetics. But there was no translation of Aristotle's Politics in Persian until 1963.

Lest us return to the issue of equality.
The idea is unacceptable to Islam.
For the non-believer cannot be the equal of the believer.

Even among the believers only those who subscribe to the three so-called Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam ( Ahl el-Kitab) are regarded as fully human.


Here is the hierarchy of human worth in Islam:

At the summit are free male Muslims

Next come Muslim male slaves

Then come free Muslim women

Next come Muslim slave women.

Then come free Jewish and /or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian women.

Each category has rights that must be respected.

The People of the Book have always been protected and relatively well-treated by Muslim rulers, but often in the context of a form of apartheid known as dhimmitude.

(snip)

Taheri goes on for a long while with this, but the point is that a Muslim is obligated to submit his life to the will of Allah, which is spelled out clearly in Sharia, the law of Islam. As slaves to Allah, there is no place for democracy in the world of Muslims. There are no choices to be made. The will of Allah must be obeyed. There is no place for democracy for non-muslims either, as they are dhimmis, second class citizens, virtualy slaves or often actual slaves to the Muslim masters. Why debate or vote when there is no other choice but submission to the will of Allah (Sharia)? Why should other peoples in other nations vote when the faithful are obligated to wage jihad until all infidels are killed, enslaved or converted?

By this logic, democracy is an exercise in futility, since Allah has already decided for us all what we must do in our lives. If we do not submit to His will, we are subject to the jihad of the faithful.

This is all very un-PC isn't it? But if you read the Koran and the Haddith and the words of Islamic relgious leaders, this is what is spelled out very clearly with no room for interpretation.

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 05:37 AM

The collision between Liberty and Islam:
user posted image
Actually, that exposed arm holding the torch would get Lady Liberty a public flogging in Saudi Arabia and other nice places.
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#4 User is offline   jessefan 

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 04:43 PM

http://www.muhajiroun.com/

QUOTE
the only way to liberate all human beings from the shackles of man-made systems, whether they are barbaric democracies or brutal dictatorships, is to implement the justice of Islam through the Khilafah system.
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On the other hand, Muslims cannot separate the fact that God exists from life.  This ultimately means that Islam regulates every aspect of life and we will not have man made principles as an alternative to it.  Now I’m sure that our words will be construed as saying that Islam espouses dictatorship, it is all too easy to suggest that non-adherence to democracy automatically means acceptance of dictatorship, this is both erroneous and simplistic.  Islam rather has its own system legislated by Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’aala), the Khilafah system
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Al Muhajiroun's aim is the establishment of a khilafah (caliphate) in Britain:
QUOTE
ca·liph·ate    n. The office or jurisdiction of a caliph. The last caliphate was held by Ottoman Turkish sultans until it was abolished by Kemal Atatürk in 1924
QUOTE
ca·liph also ca·lif or kha·lif    n.
A leader of an Islamic polity, regarded as a successor of Muhammad and by tradition always male.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English calife, from Old French, from Arabic alfa, successor (to Muhammad), caliph, from alafa, to succeed. See lp in Semitic Roots.]
QUOTE
Ummah
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The Ummah (أمة in Arabic), in Islam is the "community", i.e., the community of the believers (Ummah Al-Muhmini) in Islam. It can also refer to such a community that does not have a state.
QUOTE
What Does the Structure of the Islamic State Consist Of

The structure of the Islamic State consists of the following components:

1. The Khaleefah. [the caliph]
2. Delegated Assistants.
3. The Executive Assistants.
4. The Amir of Jihad (army).
5. The Walis (Governors).
6. The Judiciary.
7. The Administrative System.
8. The Council of the Ummah.

These components have been taken from the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam), because he (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) built the structure of the State, and he (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) was the head of the State, and he (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) ordered the Muslims to put for themselves a Khaleefah (after him) and he (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) appointed Abu Bakr and ‘Umar as his assistants (as narrated in Tirmidhi), “My two wazirs from the people of the earth are Abu Bakr and ‘Umar.?

And wazir means the one who helps, and not the term Minister as used in the Western democracies. Similarly, the Messenger of Allah (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) appointed commanders for war and jihad and appointed walis for the provinces. He appointed Mu’adh as a governor of Yemen and appointed A’ttab ibn Usayd as governor of Makkah after the conquest of Makkah. Similarly, he (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) appointed judges to judge between people. He appointed ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib as a judge for Yemen and sent Rashid ibn ‘Abdullah as the amir of judiciary and Unjust Acts. As regards to the administration structure, he (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) appointed secretaries for the public administrations, their rank being that of head of department. He appointed Mueqeeb ibn Abu Fatimah as secretary for the spoils of war and Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman as secretary for collection of the zakat on the fruits of Hijaz.

As regards the Council of the Ummah, the Messenger of Allah (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) did not always have a formal assembly, but he (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) used to take advice from Muslims. He (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) collected them on the day of Uhud and sought their advice. And sometimes he (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) used to call specific persons on a continuous basis to seek their advice, and these were some of the leaders of their people (tribes), who included Hamzah, Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, Ja’far, ‘Ali, Ibn Mas’ud, Salman, ‘Ammar, Hudhayfah, Abu Dharr, al-Miqdad, Sa’d ibn ‘Ubadah and Sa’d ibn Mu’adh, and they were like an assembly whose advice was sought.

Similarly, the Messenger of Allah (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) formed an army and he was its real commander and he (Salallahu Alaihi Wasalaam) also used to appoint commanders in some of his battles.
QUOTE
Al Muhajiroun's aim is the establishment of a khilafah (caliphate) in Britain:

[this is their plan of action]

The present ruling system should be abolished, whether it were royal or republican. Ministries, Houses of Parliament and local authorities should also be abolished. All syndicates, trade unions, charity organisation and political parties based on other than Islam should be abolished. The former political ruling system should be uprooted. All embassies should be closed down and all their staff should be deported. It is preferable to acquire copies of all documents and files found in embassies in order to help divulging the conspiracies of the West and the collaboration of the former system, and to help take the necessary precautionary steps in future. The Khaleefah and his executive team would replace the secular system, he will establish the following systems:

1. The Khaleefah will appoint the necessary ministers with the general power of attorney. These ministers will have the same mandatory duties as the Khaleefah, without specialising in one portfolio. They are in fact deputies of the Khaleefah with the mandate to advise in all matters.

2. The Khaleefah will appoint all the amirs of wilayas and all the governors and all other officials with special tasks.

3. The Khaleefah will appoint the supreme judge (attorney general) and the madhalim (head of the complaints tribunal), as well as the directors of various departments, the ambassadors the army commander, the kharaj (land tax) assessor, zakat collector and all other secretaries of public sectors.

4. The Khaleefah, in the capacity of Amir of Jihad will set up four departments and will appoint four secretaries to be in charge of these departments, they are the Foreign Department, War Department, the Department of Internal Security and the Department of Industry (see later).

5. The Khaleefah appoints the executive ministers in order to transmit all what is issued by the Khaleefah to the directors of various departments at home and abroad, and to report back to the Khaleefah all business undertaken by the directors.

6. It will be suggested that the Khaleefah establishes a council named ‘The Supreme Council of Da‘wa’. This council will have at its head the Khaleefah and will include the directors of foreign affairs, armed forces, internal security, industrial department and some of the Khaleefah personal advisers in political and military matters, in addition to the director of finance or treasury and the director of education and culture. The duties of the council will be to design plans and methods of spreading the Islamic message world-wide. The council will meet annually and whenever necessary to review its policies, this will help the Khaleefah plan the state’s policies and review them from time to time, whether in military matters or industrial, foreign policy or home affairs. The opinion of the council will not be binding on the Khaleefah.

7. As for the Shura Council or the council of the Ummah, it will be preferable to defer its establishment until the old political system is altered and until an Islamic political atmosphere is created, and until such time when the Ummah acquires an Islamic understanding and tendency (taste), so that only the ones who are faithful to Allah, His Messenger and the Ummah can be elected. The Khaleefah will also begin expanding the constitution to include solutions for all existing problems. He will assign the task of enacting the laws directly from the noble Qur’an and the Sunnah to a group of scholars, if possible, then he will table his laws to the supreme council of da‘wa for debate and revision before he adopts them. He will also put outlines and details on various penal codes, evidences, trade laws, rental laws and all transactions.


For all this talk of a "caliph," I cannot find anything that says how he is chosen and who chooses him. This ideology of government comes out of interpretations of the Koran. That does not necessarily mean that ALL Muslims will try to enforce it. But its something to think about. Islam is not just a religion. Its also a prescribed system of government. And it is NOT a democracy.

But we in the West should also remember that we once had a system like the Khilafah. We called it "the divine right of kings." We believed that kings were given their authority to rule by God. That system began to become discredited only after the end of "the thirty years war" in Europe. (1618-1648). http://www.pipeline.com/~cwa/TYWHome.htm
That war was a complicated mess, but it was basically about Catholics and Protestants deciding which religion had a right to exist in Europe. It ended only because there were so few farms left standing that there was no longer enough food to feed all the roving armies that were destroying everything. That is what led to the eventual secularization of European institutions, which in turn led to the Enlightenment and to the re-discovery, and refinement, of democracy. It takes a great deal to make democracy happen. Ask Germany and Japan.



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#5 User is offline   jessefan 

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 12:15 PM

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-05/...ent_1481203.htm

China's Muslims denounce US soldiers' abusing of Iraq prisoners

www.chinaview.cn 2004-05-20 15:53:28


URUMQI, May 20 (Xinhuanet) -- Muslims in Northwest China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region denounced the US soldiers' abusing of Iraqi prisoners as "an deadly insult on the whole Muslim world."
"I was shocked at the scene of American troops abusing some Iraqi prisoners on TV," said Rahfu Abbas, executive vice director of the autonomous regional Red Cross, "It's such a trample on humanitarianism".

As early as last year, after learning about the abusing acts of the U.S. soldiers in Iraq prisons, the International Federation of Red Cross had made propositions to the U.S. army to stop the anti-humanitarianism behavior but was refused by them.

According to Rahfu Abbas, a Muslim of the Tatar ethnic minority living in Xinjiang for generations, Islam has many taboos on sex.

"Such actions as nude before the same sex and exposing one's sexual organs before others are considered serious rebellion against orthodoxy of Islam," said Rhafu Abbas.

"In Islamism, women are forbidden to see the naked body of a man. The scene that the American female soldier pointing at the genital of a nude Iraqi prisoner with her fingers is such a humiliation to the religious belief of the Islam," said Rhafu Abbas.

"I couldn't even believe my eyes when I saw the photos on the vice of the American soldiers at the Iraqi prison. We and the Iraqis are all Muslims. We all have the same belief. The actions of the U.S. troops is such a humiliation to us Muslims that we allthink it's intolerable," said Rozi Memet, a young Uygur who is selling dried fruits at the Xinjiang international bazaar.

"All my feeling is shock and anger," said Abdurekefu Damaolaaji,vice director of the Islamic Association of China.

"The Islamic teaching requires to give lenient treatment to prisoners of the war and forbids corporal punishment, especially injuries to the five sense organs which is highly admired in Islamism," said Abdurekefu Damaolaaji.

"It's a common sense that all non-Muslims working or living in Islamic regions should respect the religion and belief of the local people," said Abdurekefu Damaolaaji.

"But the U.S. troops, whose administration is still making indiscreet criticisms to the human rights of other countries, havedone such evil conducts to the Iraqis by arresting people without reason, shutting prisoners in black rooms, beating and torching them with electricity, sending dogs to bite them and even humiliating them by forcing them to perform homosexual behavior and raping Islamic women. All are severe violation of the Islamic canons," said Abdurekefu Damaolaaji.

According to Abdurekefu Damaolaaji, who is also the deputy president of the Institute of Islamic Theology, the prisoner abusescandal has so annoyed the students of the institute that many of them think it a strong humiliation to all the Muslims around the world.

As the largest region where China's ethnic minorities inhabit and covering some one-sixth of the total territory of China, the Xinjiang Autonomous Region boasts over ten million Muslims, who are living harmoniously with other ethnic groups believing in various religions in the region. Enditem
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#6 User is offline   jessefan 

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 07:10 PM

But all may not be completely lost. Iraq was pretty much a secular society under the Bathists. This expert who's been there says there's still a chance even with whats happened so far.

QUOTE
Doctor James Mayfield just got back from Iraq. He's spent the last 40 years studying the Middle East. He's spent the last year based in Hillah helping Iraqi's re-establish government in a more democratic way, state governors and legislatures were elected.



http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=95409

Utah Professor Weighs In on Iraq SituationMay. 20, 2004
Jed Boal Reporting

President Bush made a rare trip to Capitol Hill today to reassure Republicans he has a plan to save the US effort in Iraq. He says the Iraqis are ready to "take the training wheels off" and assume political power. A Utahn, who worked with the Iraqis agrees.

The US plan is to transfer power to the Iraqi people June 30th. One retired University of Utah professor has worked on that political reconstruction project from the beginning. He's optimistic, but realistic too.

Doctor James Mayfield just got back from Iraq. He's spent the last 40 years studying the Middle East. He's spent the last year based in Hillah helping Iraqi's re-establish government in a more democratic way, state governors and legislatures were elected.

Dr. James Mayfield, Political Consultant: “Everything was going very well until a month ago. This last month has been very, very difficult."

Mayfield sites three major setbacks, the first being the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal, a shot in the foot for political reconstruction.

Dr. James Mayfield: “People saw us in negative terms whereas before they had seen us in positive terms."

Secondly, clashes with fighters loyal to rebel cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Mayfield says he strikes fear with guns, but…

Dr. James Mayfield: “In terms of representing any significant number of people, he does not."

And the car bombing assassination of the Iraqi Governing Council president, Izzadine Saleem. Mayfield called him a symbol of stability and moderation.

The political consultant says a small percentage of Iraqis are willing to use violence. What we've seen, he says, is a distortion of the scope of the chaos.

Dr. James Mayfield: “You get that image in which everyone in Baghdad is fighting against the coalition, which is simply not the case."

None of these setbacks is a fatal blow, but the road to democracy is not guaranteed. Mayfield believes the Iraqi people are still with us; he hopes these set-backs do not shake our country's resolve.

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