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Did anyone see nbc nightly news. I believe they gave the most accurate description of what i think really happened so far. The interviewd the doctors and they agreed that the us forces did not treat them badly when they were in the hospital and that they were not using blanks but they were in fact flares designed to scare the iraqi forces that they thought were inside the hospital. They said that the us forces acted properly. They also say that iraqi forces had just left the hospital 6 hours before and they were using the basement as headquaters. They also say pfc.lynch got her injuries from a truck accident which i believe she got most if not all her injuries from.
Nbc Nightly News Good Reporting
#3 Guest_LesterB_*
Posted 30 May 2003 - 05:38 PM
If you call having a truck blown out from underneath you by one or more Rocket Propelled Grenades and "Accident"...???
#4 Guest_hols_*
Posted 30 May 2003 - 05:41 PM
i don't have a link but maybe this story will be msnbc. I don't know. I didn't mean that pfc.lynch was hurt in accident she was hurt in combat. I mean she could've be tortured as well but i think she got at least some of injuries in the ambush.
#5 Guest_LesterB_*
Posted 30 May 2003 - 05:46 PM
I'm glad they finally admitted that the basement had been used as a command post. The very first reports from CENTCOM told of the basement being used this way with a model of the city accurately showing troop locations...US and Iraqi. Also, I remember that Chemical Ali was reported to be using THAT hospital himself and that the rescue mission was two-fold. Get Pfc Lynch out and capture Ali. But, I guess that detail was lost in all the "Spin".
#6 Guest_tomatoman_*
Posted 30 May 2003 - 05:46 PM
I have heard several reports that there was a time delay of 2 or 3 days (depending on the report) between the ambush and the time pfc lynch arrived at the hospital. If that is true, how is that explained by the "accident" story? It seems that if all the injuries had occured from the accident that the Iraqis would have taken here straight to the hospital.
Also, in the arizona republic newspaper there was a report by Lori Piestewa's congressman that stated the military had told him that Lori had fought valiantly while the others in her vehicle were getting out. If Jessica was riding with her, which reports say, that doesn't seem to fit.
Also, in the arizona republic newspaper there was a report by Lori Piestewa's congressman that stated the military had told him that Lori had fought valiantly while the others in her vehicle were getting out. If Jessica was riding with her, which reports say, that doesn't seem to fit.
#7 Guest_hols_*
Posted 30 May 2003 - 06:19 PM
I think the story is going to be on msnbc this hour 8-9.
#8 Guest_jean_*
Posted 30 May 2003 - 07:12 PM
I just watched the NBC show. I only caught the tail end of it and I don't know what the show was called, but it had the Top 10 or Top 5 stories and they count down to the top story.
they said Lynch was injured in combat.
They also said that one of the other POWs had re-enlisted, but that he wouldn't be sent back into the field. Instead he will help train soldiers how to survive being POWs.
they said Lynch was injured in combat.
They also said that one of the other POWs had re-enlisted, but that he wouldn't be sent back into the field. Instead he will help train soldiers how to survive being POWs.
#9
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Posted 30 May 2003 - 08:21 PM
That's good. NBC and CNN usually keep stuff accurate, unless someone else we know. 
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
#10
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Posted 30 May 2003 - 10:34 PM
I saw the story on NBC-good job. Tore a lot of holes in the BBC, Toronto Star, Robert Scheer's LA Times column. Now all we need is some of those on the mission to tell their story (Rangers most likely, but if the SEALs were from Team 6 (Counterterrorist unit) they won't be able to go on camera for obvious reasons.
#11 Guest_LesterB_*
Posted 01 June 2003 - 12:14 AM
A visit to the Hospital by Congressman Frank R. Wolf from VA: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2003May31.html
"During their visit, Wolf and Scandling stayed overnight in Nasiriyah, the scene of heavy fighting two months ago. They visited two hospitals there, including one where Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch was treated after she was captured by Iraqi forces for injuries suffered in the early days of the war.
Hospital officials showed the visitors a basement room where they said Ali Hassan Majeed, a Hussein cousin and military commander better known as "Chemical Ali," ran the Iraqi war effort in the south. Wolf said the officials told him that Majeed had set up his war room in the hospital because he knew the building would not be bombed by U.S. planes."
Funny that the facts about the Hospital being used as a HQ for "Chemical Ali" was not mensioned in the more recent reports (i.e. The BBC/LA Times/Toronto Star). Now we have a representative who has seen it.
"During their visit, Wolf and Scandling stayed overnight in Nasiriyah, the scene of heavy fighting two months ago. They visited two hospitals there, including one where Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch was treated after she was captured by Iraqi forces for injuries suffered in the early days of the war.
Hospital officials showed the visitors a basement room where they said Ali Hassan Majeed, a Hussein cousin and military commander better known as "Chemical Ali," ran the Iraqi war effort in the south. Wolf said the officials told him that Majeed had set up his war room in the hospital because he knew the building would not be bombed by U.S. planes."
Funny that the facts about the Hospital being used as a HQ for "Chemical Ali" was not mensioned in the more recent reports (i.e. The BBC/LA Times/Toronto Star). Now we have a representative who has seen it.
#12 Guest_redfalcon_*
Posted 01 June 2003 - 03:54 AM
There is a saying that says,"the eye that alters,alters all".
It means each person sees each event and reads it to mean what they want it to.
In the case of these reporters on this story,it means they came into it wanting to get a story that matches what they personally believe.
They reported details that made the story say what they wanted to and ignored the details that did not fit into their view.
And the reality is they did it actually thinking that they were being objective and just seeking the truth,when in fact they've simply written the story they think happened.
All too common a problem with reporters and journalist's today.
It means each person sees each event and reads it to mean what they want it to.
In the case of these reporters on this story,it means they came into it wanting to get a story that matches what they personally believe.
They reported details that made the story say what they wanted to and ignored the details that did not fit into their view.
And the reality is they did it actually thinking that they were being objective and just seeking the truth,when in fact they've simply written the story they think happened.
All too common a problem with reporters and journalist's today.
#13 Guest_tekteam26_*
Posted 01 June 2003 - 06:33 PM
hols,
There are far too many inconsistancies in the stories of the Iraqi doctors for them to credible even in the NBC News report. For example, they have stated that Jessi came in to their hospital with a variety of injuries to include pulmonary edema, but mostly they stated that Jessi came in with a broken left leg, a sprained right ankle, broken right arm and a head laceration. If those doctors took such good care of her, how did Jessi end up with a broken right foot, a broken (more like shattered) right ankle with a very real possibility that the foot and ankle would have to be amputated, a broken right femur (which the Iraqi's did repair surgically), a broken right arm, injured right scapula (shoulder blade), a severe spinal injury that left Jessica unable to feel her lower extremities, and several broken ribs. The fractures on Jessica's arm and legs were also all open fractures with the bones protruding through the skin. These are all injuries that the US military has reported to the public. Were the Iraqi doctors so incompetent to completely miss these injuries? Or did the Iraqi doctors either witness the Baath Party officials and Saddam Faydeen militiamen inflict these additional injuries but didn't see fit to mention them to the NBC interviewers? Of course, there are the other injuries that we haven't been told about, injuries of such a horrific nature that the Pentagon has sequestered Jessi in her hospital room for the past eight weeks. These are the injuries that the Army Colonel David O'Neal was referring to when he warned his wife via e-mail about the horrific nature of what had really been done to Jessi.
It is likely that at least some of the Iraqi doctors did actively work to help Jessi. Another nagging question that I have is how the Iraqi soldiers sent to take Jessi to Baghdad a day before the rescue were so easily convinced that Jessi had died? She was under continuous guard ever since she had been moved to Saddam Hospital. It is logical that Jessi was already in grave condition when the guards last saw her, otherwise they would have never left the hospital without their "prize". Such a grave condition does not result from a broken leg, a broken arm and a dislocated ankle.
Then there is the ambulance story that the Iraqi doctors like to talk about. Why didn't those same "caring doctors" give the driver a note to hand to the Marine guards after stopping the ambulance well away from the checkpoint and walking with their hands in the air to signify that they weren't armed? We already know that Saddam Faydeen troops were using ambulances as troop transports to ambush US forces. I'm sure that the doctors did too. The truth is that there was an Iraqi ambulance driver to drove to a US checkpoint in regards to Jessi, but only with an empty ambulance and a demand for $20,000 in hard currency for Jessi's location. Hardly the act of a compassionate person, I would think.
Before you account all of Jessi's injuries to a motor vehicle accident, please bear these facts in mind. First, having been in many nighttime convoy movements when I was in the active duty Army, I can tell you that they are very slow indeed, seldom reaching more than 15 miles per hour in speed. Even if the driver of the Humvee that Jessi was riding in and that Lori Ann Piestewa was driving did try to accelerate to get out of the ambush kill zone, it would have barely had a chance to reach 25 miles per hour before being hit by the RPG round. Having driven Humvees in the past, I can tell you that they are extremely difficult to flip over in rough terrain much less in the flat terrain around the ambush site. Also as someone who literally wrote the US Army manual for field expedient use of the RPG-7, I can also tell you that the explosion from the impact of an RPG shaped charge round will not flip over a Humvee either. This is not Hollywood where you have vehicles flipped over by massive explosions. The RPG's warhead is designed to focus its blast into a narrow jet of molten high speed metal to punch holes in tanks, not to blow things apart like a high explosive fragmentation warhead from an artillery piece. If you are in the way of an RPG round, you get badly burned and you get body parts blown off. If you are more than a few feet away from the impact and off axis from the molten jet of metal, you get few if any injuries at all, especially if you have anything in the way at all like the engine firewall or even the back of a car seat. I imagine that a few of us have been in auto accidents of speeds from 15 to 25 miles per hour. How many of us suffered multiple compound fractures as a result? I don't think that you will find many who have. The humvee likely had a wheel blown off and quickly ground to a halt from the RPG impact. Then everyone had to jump out and try to find cover and a means to escape the kill zone. After nearly twenty years of experience in the military, it's the only thing that makes sense.
Before we take the debunking of Jessi's rescue to heart, we really should take into consideration of the source first. The Iraqi's doctors have been reported to have assisted in the torture and mutilation of their own people at the orders of Saddam's Baath Party. Whose to say if some of those same doctors were the ones that the BBC interviewed.
Someone said that they heard that the Lynch family said that Jessi roughly agreed with the accounts of the Iraqi doctors? I would like to know where that report came from. Of course, after weeks of being told that Jessi didn't remember anything, now her father has reported that there is no problem with her memory, that she remembers everything. I am not surprised at all.
Jerry Hall
There are far too many inconsistancies in the stories of the Iraqi doctors for them to credible even in the NBC News report. For example, they have stated that Jessi came in to their hospital with a variety of injuries to include pulmonary edema, but mostly they stated that Jessi came in with a broken left leg, a sprained right ankle, broken right arm and a head laceration. If those doctors took such good care of her, how did Jessi end up with a broken right foot, a broken (more like shattered) right ankle with a very real possibility that the foot and ankle would have to be amputated, a broken right femur (which the Iraqi's did repair surgically), a broken right arm, injured right scapula (shoulder blade), a severe spinal injury that left Jessica unable to feel her lower extremities, and several broken ribs. The fractures on Jessica's arm and legs were also all open fractures with the bones protruding through the skin. These are all injuries that the US military has reported to the public. Were the Iraqi doctors so incompetent to completely miss these injuries? Or did the Iraqi doctors either witness the Baath Party officials and Saddam Faydeen militiamen inflict these additional injuries but didn't see fit to mention them to the NBC interviewers? Of course, there are the other injuries that we haven't been told about, injuries of such a horrific nature that the Pentagon has sequestered Jessi in her hospital room for the past eight weeks. These are the injuries that the Army Colonel David O'Neal was referring to when he warned his wife via e-mail about the horrific nature of what had really been done to Jessi.
It is likely that at least some of the Iraqi doctors did actively work to help Jessi. Another nagging question that I have is how the Iraqi soldiers sent to take Jessi to Baghdad a day before the rescue were so easily convinced that Jessi had died? She was under continuous guard ever since she had been moved to Saddam Hospital. It is logical that Jessi was already in grave condition when the guards last saw her, otherwise they would have never left the hospital without their "prize". Such a grave condition does not result from a broken leg, a broken arm and a dislocated ankle.
Then there is the ambulance story that the Iraqi doctors like to talk about. Why didn't those same "caring doctors" give the driver a note to hand to the Marine guards after stopping the ambulance well away from the checkpoint and walking with their hands in the air to signify that they weren't armed? We already know that Saddam Faydeen troops were using ambulances as troop transports to ambush US forces. I'm sure that the doctors did too. The truth is that there was an Iraqi ambulance driver to drove to a US checkpoint in regards to Jessi, but only with an empty ambulance and a demand for $20,000 in hard currency for Jessi's location. Hardly the act of a compassionate person, I would think.
Before you account all of Jessi's injuries to a motor vehicle accident, please bear these facts in mind. First, having been in many nighttime convoy movements when I was in the active duty Army, I can tell you that they are very slow indeed, seldom reaching more than 15 miles per hour in speed. Even if the driver of the Humvee that Jessi was riding in and that Lori Ann Piestewa was driving did try to accelerate to get out of the ambush kill zone, it would have barely had a chance to reach 25 miles per hour before being hit by the RPG round. Having driven Humvees in the past, I can tell you that they are extremely difficult to flip over in rough terrain much less in the flat terrain around the ambush site. Also as someone who literally wrote the US Army manual for field expedient use of the RPG-7, I can also tell you that the explosion from the impact of an RPG shaped charge round will not flip over a Humvee either. This is not Hollywood where you have vehicles flipped over by massive explosions. The RPG's warhead is designed to focus its blast into a narrow jet of molten high speed metal to punch holes in tanks, not to blow things apart like a high explosive fragmentation warhead from an artillery piece. If you are in the way of an RPG round, you get badly burned and you get body parts blown off. If you are more than a few feet away from the impact and off axis from the molten jet of metal, you get few if any injuries at all, especially if you have anything in the way at all like the engine firewall or even the back of a car seat. I imagine that a few of us have been in auto accidents of speeds from 15 to 25 miles per hour. How many of us suffered multiple compound fractures as a result? I don't think that you will find many who have. The humvee likely had a wheel blown off and quickly ground to a halt from the RPG impact. Then everyone had to jump out and try to find cover and a means to escape the kill zone. After nearly twenty years of experience in the military, it's the only thing that makes sense.
Before we take the debunking of Jessi's rescue to heart, we really should take into consideration of the source first. The Iraqi's doctors have been reported to have assisted in the torture and mutilation of their own people at the orders of Saddam's Baath Party. Whose to say if some of those same doctors were the ones that the BBC interviewed.
Someone said that they heard that the Lynch family said that Jessi roughly agreed with the accounts of the Iraqi doctors? I would like to know where that report came from. Of course, after weeks of being told that Jessi didn't remember anything, now her father has reported that there is no problem with her memory, that she remembers everything. I am not surprised at all.
Jerry Hall
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Posted 01 June 2003 - 07:38 PM
Tekteam,
The why's and the hows are common place. We may never know. No, she didn't get her injuries from"A traffic accident"Kinda sad that beie
ng hit by a granade is thought of a "traffic accident" Must be a tough town.
her broken bones,..we may never hear the full story. The how's and whys of that.
It's just the same story run through a differant filter.Just get the facts. Come up with a difinitive report, as to her injuries. Take it from there. Not a traffic accident. More like Blown to Sh*t!!!Like someome said, A hummer does not get flipped so easily. That IS for sure. The rest is just speculation. What we've already been over a hundred times here.
From what I see, the people here have a good sense of it all. Hear a story, go with it....hear something differant, compare, discuss, debate. Beautiful. But why go over the same crap over and over again and again(Crimson in clover, over and over)
It's just over kill. If we can't find something else, maybe we ARe part of the problem.Tell me we haven't been through this before.
The why's and the hows are common place. We may never know. No, she didn't get her injuries from"A traffic accident"Kinda sad that beie
ng hit by a granade is thought of a "traffic accident" Must be a tough town.
her broken bones,..we may never hear the full story. The how's and whys of that.
It's just the same story run through a differant filter.Just get the facts. Come up with a difinitive report, as to her injuries. Take it from there. Not a traffic accident. More like Blown to Sh*t!!!Like someome said, A hummer does not get flipped so easily. That IS for sure. The rest is just speculation. What we've already been over a hundred times here.
From what I see, the people here have a good sense of it all. Hear a story, go with it....hear something differant, compare, discuss, debate. Beautiful. But why go over the same crap over and over again and again(Crimson in clover, over and over)
It's just over kill. If we can't find something else, maybe we ARe part of the problem.Tell me we haven't been through this before.
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Posted 01 June 2003 - 08:47 PM
Very good observations Jerry! Thank you for those facts!
Another observation that needs to be addressed. Jessica was not alone in that vehicle. There were others there remember - some that were killed (not by the vehicle either) and others that were taken prisoners - that were in perfect health - no injuries - except for Shoshana Johnson that had GUN SHOT wounds to her ankles. Imagine that! She was SHOT people! No staged rescue attempt there! I repeat - SHOSHANA WAS SHOT. Now go back to Jessica - broken bones, a GUN SHOT wound, a STAB wound (yes it HAS been confirmed that she did in fact have these). She obtained these wounds from a vehicle accident??? Since when does a vehicle have the capability to shoot a gun or stab someone?? BOTH of these brave women should be commended for their bravery and dedication as well as the male POW's Shoshana was rescued with.
I'd like to see every person that tries to say that none of these POW's are heroes - to hop a plane and go fill their shoes in Iraq. Join the service if you dare and go see if you think differently after living through what these brave American & British soldiers have lived through for the sake of freedom! I can not begin to tell you how fed up and disgusted I am with the snot nosed little brats spouting off at something they know NOTHING about - and they don't even have the guts to sign their REAL names to their idiot rantings.
EVERY SOLDIER, SAILOR AND MARINE THAT FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY IS A HERO!! PERIOD!
Makes you wonder - would they be so critical if Jessica had been a man? Haven't heard anyone say a word about the male soldiers not being heroes.
Another observation that needs to be addressed. Jessica was not alone in that vehicle. There were others there remember - some that were killed (not by the vehicle either) and others that were taken prisoners - that were in perfect health - no injuries - except for Shoshana Johnson that had GUN SHOT wounds to her ankles. Imagine that! She was SHOT people! No staged rescue attempt there! I repeat - SHOSHANA WAS SHOT. Now go back to Jessica - broken bones, a GUN SHOT wound, a STAB wound (yes it HAS been confirmed that she did in fact have these). She obtained these wounds from a vehicle accident??? Since when does a vehicle have the capability to shoot a gun or stab someone?? BOTH of these brave women should be commended for their bravery and dedication as well as the male POW's Shoshana was rescued with.
I'd like to see every person that tries to say that none of these POW's are heroes - to hop a plane and go fill their shoes in Iraq. Join the service if you dare and go see if you think differently after living through what these brave American & British soldiers have lived through for the sake of freedom! I can not begin to tell you how fed up and disgusted I am with the snot nosed little brats spouting off at something they know NOTHING about - and they don't even have the guts to sign their REAL names to their idiot rantings.
EVERY SOLDIER, SAILOR AND MARINE THAT FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY IS A HERO!! PERIOD!
Makes you wonder - would they be so critical if Jessica had been a man? Haven't heard anyone say a word about the male soldiers not being heroes.
