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Unfortunately, we may never get the whole story. The "facts" were so confused in the beginning that the truth will eventually take a detour. How would you feel if you were laying in a hospital bed and everyone around you was treating you like a hero? What if the truth was your weapon jammed the first time you tried to fire it and you never cleared it and tried again. Everyone is saying how hard you fought, how many enemy you killed, how brave you were, when in reality, you were in no shape to put up any resistance due to injuries sustained in a vehicle accident. Let's say just once while you were lying in this bed you started to believe the things everyone was saying and didn't want to let them down. So, the truth takes a slight detour and with just a few modifications, your in your story your weapon didn't jam the first time you fired it and your pretty sure you hit what you were aiming at. Do you see where this is going?
New Washington Post Story On Ambush also details on rescue
#17
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Posted 17 June 2003 - 05:26 PM
Just read the Washington Post story and if thats how things happened, it's a wonder that anyone survived. I read some good in some of the people that helped Jessica, but there must have also been alot of evil and wicked people that really mistreated her! I really feel sorry for her and all she has been through and all that she will have to do to try to get back to a normal life style. Jessica, if you happen to read this, we are all pulling for you! 
#18
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Posted 17 June 2003 - 08:50 PM
Good Article.
She was smart refuesing any food that she did not see being open. Some details got graphice.
I belive Mohadmand's account more. Dishearting to read that Louri suffered before she died.
Wonder why they didn't keep her uniform with her. Sound like some abuce to me.
By the way I am loudboy, For some reason, I got forbidded from posting anything new. Same thing happened to me in another fourm run by the same outfit as this one.
#19
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Posted 17 June 2003 - 08:55 PM
You know when you expect some to die, like many did for Jessica, but they survived. You can say that God has plans for them.
Same thing happened with a friend of mine he was in a barn throwing hay into the hay loft when lighting hit the barn, and him, and he survived with just a couple of burns. and his preacher said God has plans for you.
Same thing happened with a friend of mine he was in a barn throwing hay into the hay loft when lighting hit the barn, and him, and he survived with just a couple of burns. and his preacher said God has plans for you.
#20 Guest_dilligafst_*
Posted 17 June 2003 - 10:11 PM
Hey Soprano: Actually, yes, that was sad that four of the nine soldiers that died were in Jessica's vehicle. Until you mentioned it I had noticed that fact, but had not dwelled on it. That, alone, says something about how Jessica must be made of cast iron to survive that crash. It also says, like the first articles that came out, that Jessica was, indeed, trying to fight it out with the attackers, despite gun jamming. That happened alot that day.
It also for the first time says what happened, or at least might have, happened in that void between the military hospital and the saddam hospital. Like most, I'm sure, I figured that she had been mistreated by either rifle butts, sticks, or whatever. CNN actually made an allusion to it back in April, but did not state it as no one had any evidence.
The writers/reporters did this article well. They said how the whole rambo thing got started, leading to the fall-out and all, as well as Jessica's time in the hospital. Somehow, she did inspire their humanity to take care of her, despite the guards and the command around.
What really hurt was how badly she is still messed-up mentally and traumatized and that she is so full of "bolts and screws" that it takes an hour to move her from tbe bed to the wheel chair. It hurt to read how she is alone, under guard, hardly allowed to interact with anyone except her parents and a few visitors, working at lunch when everyone else is away. I wonder why the seclusion.
Anyone got a good idea on how to cheer her up?
It also for the first time says what happened, or at least might have, happened in that void between the military hospital and the saddam hospital. Like most, I'm sure, I figured that she had been mistreated by either rifle butts, sticks, or whatever. CNN actually made an allusion to it back in April, but did not state it as no one had any evidence.
The writers/reporters did this article well. They said how the whole rambo thing got started, leading to the fall-out and all, as well as Jessica's time in the hospital. Somehow, she did inspire their humanity to take care of her, despite the guards and the command around.
What really hurt was how badly she is still messed-up mentally and traumatized and that she is so full of "bolts and screws" that it takes an hour to move her from tbe bed to the wheel chair. It hurt to read how she is alone, under guard, hardly allowed to interact with anyone except her parents and a few visitors, working at lunch when everyone else is away. I wonder why the seclusion.
Anyone got a good idea on how to cheer her up?
#21
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Posted 17 June 2003 - 10:25 PM
Pray for her and her family. 
#22
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Posted 17 June 2003 - 10:37 PM
| QUOTE (dilligafst @ Jun 17 2003, 10:11 PM) |
| What really hurt was how badly she is still messed-up mentally and traumatized and that she is so full of "bolts and screws" that it takes an hour to move her from tbe bed to the wheel chair. It hurt to read how she is alone, under guard, hardly allowed to interact with anyone except her parents and a few visitors, working at lunch when everyone else is away. I wonder why the seclusion. |
I feel the same way too. Its just not fair what she has to go through. But it shows you how really brave she is.
#23
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Posted 17 June 2003 - 11:52 PM
I think the seclusion is probably best for her at this point...minimizing distractions allowing her to fully concentrate on her recovery. And dilligafst, I'm sure you understand this, but the guard is there to protect her, not to keep her locked-up. Security should be perceived as a positive thing.
#24
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Posted 18 June 2003 - 02:54 AM
The Washington Post did an excellent job with this article. Unfortunatly, other news organizations who use parts the article to frame their own reports can be very sloppy. For example this Channel 10 story says that Pfc. Lynch can now sit in a wheelchair for an hour a day, while the Post article says that it takes her an hour to get into the wheelchair. This is just one of many examples I have seen today of media, mostly local tv newscasters around the country, copy from the Post article and add insult to injury by not even getting the story right that they're ripping off.
There is one point that I have a problem with regarding the Post article, and that is the part that states that military officials say Pfc. Lynch was mistreated by her captors, but refused to elaborate. I wish they had left that out of this article and waited untill they had more information. This is the type of open ended statement that spawns excessive speculation. They should have saved that for a follow up article in my opinion, but overall, some of the best reporting on this subject is in this article.
About Pfc. Lynch being "dazed": Is it possible that being in intense pain for so long and under the influence of pain medication could explain this? I hope her psychological recovery will be complete, as well as the physical recovery.
There is one point that I have a problem with regarding the Post article, and that is the part that states that military officials say Pfc. Lynch was mistreated by her captors, but refused to elaborate. I wish they had left that out of this article and waited untill they had more information. This is the type of open ended statement that spawns excessive speculation. They should have saved that for a follow up article in my opinion, but overall, some of the best reporting on this subject is in this article.
About Pfc. Lynch being "dazed": Is it possible that being in intense pain for so long and under the influence of pain medication could explain this? I hope her psychological recovery will be complete, as well as the physical recovery.
#25
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Posted 18 June 2003 - 05:15 AM
| QUOTE |
| Anyone got a good idea on how to cheer her up? |
dilligafst, I picked up on that too. I got a sense of things being dreary for her right now.
Yesterday it was so nice out, I was wondering if they would clear a patio somewhere and let her sit out in the sun and warmth. But then I realized the sun and warmth might trigger in her a flashback of a sunny and warm day when she was in Iraq, and that that might not be a good thing just now. So Khan Benjamin is probably more right that he knows. She probably does need to stay in seclusion until she is whole lot more stronger. Remember, though, that the article said she was communicating with her friends. That's probably the best medicine right now.
#26 Guest_LesterB_*
Posted 18 June 2003 - 07:44 AM
It would seem to me that the best thing to "Cheer her up"...would be for her to get home!
#27 Guest_bubster_*
Posted 18 June 2003 - 08:22 AM
Hi. I have been surprised that a few elements of the recent WP story, that to my mind are important, have not been discussed. Maybe someone can straighten me out on these issues.
To me the WP report for the first time (for me at least) provides a framework in which Private Lynch could have been involved in 'above and beyond the call of duty' heroism. Getting surrounded by the enemy and fighting to the death is brave and soldierly. However, if you put yourself in that situation, making the sacrifice to aid your side or defend your people, then it becomes truly heroic. In the WP account, at some point during the running battle Pfc Lynch was picked up by the humvee that contained Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy and Pfc. Lori Piestewa, who were trailing the column trying to ensure no one was left behind, risking their lives in the process. Sergeant Dowdy was reported to have been extremely heroic in at least one instance in the process of getting two additional soldiers who he pulled from a disabled wrecker, into the humvee. What were the two Pfcs doing? One witness to this is Private Lynch. Unless another memory trace crops up, she is reported to remember up until the time when the RPG hit her vehicle just prior to the 'catastrophic collision'. The gun jamming stories may have come from her- I do not know who else could really comment. Even if Private Lynch's gun jammed, other guns were available in the humvee, Private Piestewa's for example who was driving and could not very well be firing away at pick-ups full of Iraqi's that were apparently attacking them, and handle the humvee at the same time. Also, it seems to me a little early to dismiss the intercepted Iraqi chatter regarding Private Lynch's actions. It seems that the vehicle that Pfc Lynch was riding in was engaged in a running battle for some period of time. And that they were risking their lives to try to get evryone home. We'll see.
I find the account of the capture and first military hospital visit a little suspect. Until this report, every other account I have read had Private Lynch arriving at Saddam Hussein General Hospital a few days or two day after her capture. In the WP account she is taken to the military hospital, patched up, then transferred immediately. This was because the hospital was to fall in two days, according to the Iraqi quoted in the WP account. By this chronology, Private Lynch was captured, taken to the military hospital, worked on, transferred to Saddam Hospital all on March 23. By the Iraqi account that was quoted , the hospital fell 2 days later on March 25. All Iraqi accounts previously (that I have encountered) had Pfc Lynch arriving at Saddam Hospital sometime later, perhaps on, March 25, and my impression was that the military hospital was reported to have fallen on March 27. That was where it was originally reported that two female uniforms with the nametags torn off were found. This report quickly disappeared from coverage.
If the WP chronology is correct then Private Lynch's memory loss would amount to perhaps only a few hours from the accident to waking up in Saddam Hospital, so why the concern about the memory trace (whatever that is supposed to be)? She may well have been unconscious much of that few hours with severe injuries and shock from the accident. If she received all of her injuries in that accident it is amazing she survived and not at all surprising that she doesn't remember anything for awhile.
The WP account would be a best case scenerio for what happened to her with regard to her care by the Iraqis. I hope it is accurate, but I am not yet convinced. Maybe someone can help me.
The most troubling part of the account to me is the confirmation that Private Piestewa was also taken alive. This was predicted by the reports of March 27 in which the two female uniforms were found. Again, I hope that the WP account is correct and that Private Piestewa died peacefully of her accident wounds.
Should we inquire and seek to know the truth of this matter? Should efforts be made to bring those who did wrong (if there are any) to justice? Should we try to vindicate people who are falsely accused, celebrate those who acted in an exemplary manner, and seek the truth so that our societal judgments are true? I think that, ultimately, truth and justice are vitally important. I suspect that when she is able and the proper time arrives Private Lynch will see to it that what she knows of the truth is revealed.
Let us keep Private Lynch and her family and all of the good people who have been hurt by Saddam and his lot in our prayers
To me the WP report for the first time (for me at least) provides a framework in which Private Lynch could have been involved in 'above and beyond the call of duty' heroism. Getting surrounded by the enemy and fighting to the death is brave and soldierly. However, if you put yourself in that situation, making the sacrifice to aid your side or defend your people, then it becomes truly heroic. In the WP account, at some point during the running battle Pfc Lynch was picked up by the humvee that contained Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy and Pfc. Lori Piestewa, who were trailing the column trying to ensure no one was left behind, risking their lives in the process. Sergeant Dowdy was reported to have been extremely heroic in at least one instance in the process of getting two additional soldiers who he pulled from a disabled wrecker, into the humvee. What were the two Pfcs doing? One witness to this is Private Lynch. Unless another memory trace crops up, she is reported to remember up until the time when the RPG hit her vehicle just prior to the 'catastrophic collision'. The gun jamming stories may have come from her- I do not know who else could really comment. Even if Private Lynch's gun jammed, other guns were available in the humvee, Private Piestewa's for example who was driving and could not very well be firing away at pick-ups full of Iraqi's that were apparently attacking them, and handle the humvee at the same time. Also, it seems to me a little early to dismiss the intercepted Iraqi chatter regarding Private Lynch's actions. It seems that the vehicle that Pfc Lynch was riding in was engaged in a running battle for some period of time. And that they were risking their lives to try to get evryone home. We'll see.
I find the account of the capture and first military hospital visit a little suspect. Until this report, every other account I have read had Private Lynch arriving at Saddam Hussein General Hospital a few days or two day after her capture. In the WP account she is taken to the military hospital, patched up, then transferred immediately. This was because the hospital was to fall in two days, according to the Iraqi quoted in the WP account. By this chronology, Private Lynch was captured, taken to the military hospital, worked on, transferred to Saddam Hospital all on March 23. By the Iraqi account that was quoted , the hospital fell 2 days later on March 25. All Iraqi accounts previously (that I have encountered) had Pfc Lynch arriving at Saddam Hospital sometime later, perhaps on, March 25, and my impression was that the military hospital was reported to have fallen on March 27. That was where it was originally reported that two female uniforms with the nametags torn off were found. This report quickly disappeared from coverage.
If the WP chronology is correct then Private Lynch's memory loss would amount to perhaps only a few hours from the accident to waking up in Saddam Hospital, so why the concern about the memory trace (whatever that is supposed to be)? She may well have been unconscious much of that few hours with severe injuries and shock from the accident. If she received all of her injuries in that accident it is amazing she survived and not at all surprising that she doesn't remember anything for awhile.
The WP account would be a best case scenerio for what happened to her with regard to her care by the Iraqis. I hope it is accurate, but I am not yet convinced. Maybe someone can help me.
The most troubling part of the account to me is the confirmation that Private Piestewa was also taken alive. This was predicted by the reports of March 27 in which the two female uniforms were found. Again, I hope that the WP account is correct and that Private Piestewa died peacefully of her accident wounds.
Should we inquire and seek to know the truth of this matter? Should efforts be made to bring those who did wrong (if there are any) to justice? Should we try to vindicate people who are falsely accused, celebrate those who acted in an exemplary manner, and seek the truth so that our societal judgments are true? I think that, ultimately, truth and justice are vitally important. I suspect that when she is able and the proper time arrives Private Lynch will see to it that what she knows of the truth is revealed.
Let us keep Private Lynch and her family and all of the good people who have been hurt by Saddam and his lot in our prayers
#28 Guest_tekteam26_*
Posted 18 June 2003 - 09:42 AM
Before we all jump in and take the Washington Post article, we need to step back and look at the major holes in it....like the amount of light available at that time of the evening....like in twilight, how Jessi's rifle was supposed to have jammed even though she was in no position to fire it before the vehicle was disabled and supposedly had fractures to both legs and her right arm so she was in no condition to fire her weapons afterwards. There are quite a few other holes in the story. I am rather curious why there are no photos of a soft top Humvee wrecked into a tractor-trailer as is described in the article also. This only scratches the surface of the problems that I have with the article. But also please look at the section of the following article where an Iraqi doctor questions how Jessi's fractures really occurred....and he doesn't think that they came from a motor vehicle accident either.
http://www.dailymail.com/display_story.php...?sid=2003061835
Hopefully, this posting will be allowed to be shown to the forum
Jerry Hall
http://www.dailymail.com/display_story.php...?sid=2003061835
Hopefully, this posting will be allowed to be shown to the forum
Jerry Hall
#29 Guest_dilligafst_*
Posted 18 June 2003 - 10:42 AM
Hell, I don't know...sun and warmth anything out of a hospital would probably help immensely...maybe a few snorts of that West Virginia mountain white lightning would help too:) Just kidding. Hey, I live in the mountains too:) We know the feeling.
I was just tossing that idea out. Since the ambush that poor lady has been in one hospital after another and hasn't seen the grass grow or the flowers bloom for a helluva long time. Would not be surprised that if she did see the sun and the blue sky and all those other things we take for granted, it probably would cheer her up some.
But there must be something we can do:)
I was just tossing that idea out. Since the ambush that poor lady has been in one hospital after another and hasn't seen the grass grow or the flowers bloom for a helluva long time. Would not be surprised that if she did see the sun and the blue sky and all those other things we take for granted, it probably would cheer her up some.
But there must be something we can do:)
#30
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Posted 18 June 2003 - 10:47 AM
I have entered my opinion on the Post's report of Jessica's current status on the"Latest News, Jessica recovering slowly" thread. Basically, I suspect that much of their information is outdated and she is probably doing better than reported.
For me, the best news to come out of the article is the suggestion that the time frame between Jessica's admission to the military hospital and her admission to the civilian hospital is in hours rather than days. If one is to believe the Iraqi doctors, and I realize that is a very big if, she was unconscious when admitted to both places, and in shock when admitted to the civilian hospital two to three hours later. These "facts" certainly lend credence to the reports that she can't remember anything between the time her vehicle was hit until she woke up in the civilian hospital and I consider that very good news.
Since it seems to be most likely that any mistreatment would have occurred in the military hospital, it is also encouraging to note the time frame was shorter than first estimated.
One of the things that has bothered me is why she was kept alive and the others weren't--assuming some were executed as has been reported. Knowing now that the others in the vehicle, except for Lori, were killed on impact and Lori died soon after arrival at the military hospital, I now conclude that Jessica was the only one still alive at that point and the Iraqis determined early on that they wanted her as a negotiating ploy, or pawn or whatever and they decided to move her to the civilian hospital.
All of this makes me want to believe very badly that in this instance the Iraqis are telling the truth.
For me, the best news to come out of the article is the suggestion that the time frame between Jessica's admission to the military hospital and her admission to the civilian hospital is in hours rather than days. If one is to believe the Iraqi doctors, and I realize that is a very big if, she was unconscious when admitted to both places, and in shock when admitted to the civilian hospital two to three hours later. These "facts" certainly lend credence to the reports that she can't remember anything between the time her vehicle was hit until she woke up in the civilian hospital and I consider that very good news.
Since it seems to be most likely that any mistreatment would have occurred in the military hospital, it is also encouraging to note the time frame was shorter than first estimated.
One of the things that has bothered me is why she was kept alive and the others weren't--assuming some were executed as has been reported. Knowing now that the others in the vehicle, except for Lori, were killed on impact and Lori died soon after arrival at the military hospital, I now conclude that Jessica was the only one still alive at that point and the Iraqis determined early on that they wanted her as a negotiating ploy, or pawn or whatever and they decided to move her to the civilian hospital.
All of this makes me want to believe very badly that in this instance the Iraqis are telling the truth.
